Curse

JR · Jan 19, 2007, 02:35 PM // 14:35

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Originally Posted by Ensign

What stances do you think should be played, but are not being played because of Wild Blow Dervishes? As far as I know, there aren't any, and you're just arguing about skills and a metagame that don't exist.

We would have used Mantra of Earth Monks in game two vs [tag] if it wasn't for Wild Blow...

lilnate22 · Jan 19, 2007, 03:42 PM // 15:42

yea link it to strength... that would do tha trick imo

Thomas.knbk · Jan 19, 2007, 07:09 PM // 19:09

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Originally Posted by lilnate22

yea link it to strength... that would do tha trick imo

Also note my suggestion drops the 'lose all adrenaline' clause.

Thom Bangalter · Jan 19, 2007, 07:12 PM // 19:12

natural stride and dark escape also come to mind.

twicky_kid · Jan 19, 2007, 07:33 PM // 19:33

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Originally Posted by Patccmoi

And aren't you the one arguing that Grenth is fine if Wild Blow wasn't there? Grenth is as harsh for enchants, actually more imo, and there is MANY more enchants than stances.

Yes I believe that wild blow and harrier's grasp is what makes grenth's so dangerous.

If I had a skill that said auto crit, cannot be blocked or evaded, and remove 1 enchant from the target with a 5r and 0 attribute point investment wouldn't you think that skill is overpowered? With grenth that might as well be the wording on Wild Blow. Grenth alone can be contained with the usual anti-melee skills.

Yes, there are other skills that create the "cannot be blocked or evaded" effect. Some of them are enchants and stances so they will not trigger Grenth and 80+ dmg hit. You can still use those skill and be effective with Grenth but it will not pressure a target as it does now. Also many of those skills have less duration than recharge so they will not always be available and you will need some attribute point investment unlike wild blow.

Irresistible Sweep can be used but it does at least have a down side that WILL affect a dervish. Dervish have low armor on the front line so they do need those prot enchantments. IS is there but I don't think you'd be able to spam it as much as Wild blow. IS also has a longer recharge than WB.

With the less frequent use of "cannot block and evade" skills the less frequent Aegis will be removed. Right now all a dervish has to do is walk up to a target and WB to remove Aegis so all the other melee teammates can train the target. If you do need to change targets at any given moment you are ready at any time to do so with WB. The other options might not be available or at least will have a cost in doing so.

Honestly I don't know how to change it to be a compromise for 2nd class uses. Wild Blow is after all the only remove stance skill that has the cannot block and evade without a condition.

In any case the reasons are pretty clear why it needs to be changed more than Grenths. I hesitate in changing Grenths because that can be done at any time. If they change WB and Grenth is still too much then ya change it. Making huge adjustments to skills all at one time is usually not needed and there is usually a backlash from players when Anet does that.

I just don't want to see another rit. Right now the dervish has the god forms and ebon dust cloak going for them. I don't see much use in competitive play for the other elites. Mel's and Grenth are under the bullseye right now for nerfs. If they are nerfed to much they will go the way of rits.

I love the idea of the test weekend. I think that is the best idea Anet has had for skill changes and we see slight changes with that method from the beta weekend when current skills were adjusted. This will also work towards Anets advantage. If people know what is going to be changed before the change happens its easier to accept. I think Anet finally understands that changing something and telling "just accept and adapt" doesn't go over with players very well.

Ensign · Jan 19, 2007, 08:08 PM // 20:08

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Originally Posted by Winstar

If you took away wb do you really think the grenth would then be balanced?

Depends, was I dropped on my head out of a second story window as a child?

Repeatedly?

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Originally Posted by Patrograd

It seems to me that this is the way the skill was designed...I cant believe this is what was intended by the designers.

I care very little about what was intended by the designers when looking at a skill, and evaluating its effect on gameplay and the metagame. I don't think that competitive play is considered at all during the design of a vast majority of skills. I'm not willing to play a guessing game, and even if I was it would be pointless. Skills simply are what they are, and need to be evaluated on how they are used and what their effects are - not on some theoretical construct of what they should be.

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